i was corresponding with a family member about “communism” and american form of government. i think we disagreed because i used a label “communism” of which we had very different definitions. but at the same time, i think there is more important issues than the political system that one lives in or creates. but i am glad to have an effective system of government, i think america has an effective system in place, but i think that the most important thing is the people who live in america. if the people of whatever country are godly, then the country will be good, but if not…
here is what i responded to that family member with, once i realized the miscommunication. i thought it might be interesting:
i agree entirely with you. i am sorry, i havent spent enough time clarifying what i think. but let me say this. it isnt that America has a great govt. but that Americans WERE (and some still are, even more so than most countries) for the most part submissive to God. that is what makes the difference. not the political system. evil men can destroy both “good” and “bad” systems. yes, i agree that checks and balances and federalism has much merit. but it isnt “Christian” or even “good”. it is only “better”. and better doesnt matter if the people are corrupt and evil.
i think you are quite open and “postmodern” and i dont think you are stuck in the past, but i think its important to recognize America was and even still is sometimes, “good” but only because the people were and are “good”. the moment they cease to be godly is the moment that we cease to be “good”. unfortunately, i see too many people who are selfish and ungodly. i separate those two because selfish is many of the “moral” nominal christians and ungodly is many of those who reject God entirely. either way, there are few passionate followers of Christ in our generation. they are fewer and further between. i think the “morality” that is left is just a cultural norm that people do because that is how they were raised. i was talking with a kid yesterday. i asked him what he believed about ethics (he wanted help in his correspondence philsophy course). he said “right” is what is cultural passed down. thats it. and that is what most of my generation thinks. and many of yours as well, i fear. unless there is renewal and a “Great Awakening” i fear America’s “goodness” will be lost.
at the same time, i bring up the CIA because they are given free reign, not because they are supposed to, but because they are secret. they are able to do things that are evil because they arent held accountable. that is one of the better things about USA that we have open accountability for many positions in govt. unfortunately as with the current leadership (and much before it as well) there is no check or accountability on their decisions. in the future, it only takes one evil man (or woman) to drastically destroy liberty and freedom, etc, not to mention the way we treat the rest of the world.
aside from that, i still love america, but not because its system is “good” but better. just like i appreciate the PCA (and other presbyteries) because their system is better, but certainly not perfect and i dont think they are even “good” systems in terms of right and wrong. God can and has used hierarchical churches (monastic movements in catholicism) and purely democratic (anabaptist) movement to bring His renewal. so its not the system, but the men. and yes, a system that is better set up will often keep in check human evil, but only for so long. and in that sense, you are right, it is better to have a balanced govt like ours and like the PCA, etc.
more to follow later…
Filed under: Christianity, Culture, Politics, Religion | Tagged: america, checks and balances, federalism, postmodern

Hrmm… an interesting conversation.
” if the people of whatever country are godly, then the country will be good, but if not…”
Be very careful with statements like this, brother. One must first define “Godly,” for there are many who call on Jesus by name but will not be known by Him on the day of judgment. Also, there are many who have Godly character who do not call themselves Christians (as C.S. Lewis puts it, “the law of God is written on their hearts,” quoting Paul). A country may have a lot of Christians, but have deplorable ethics on the international scene as well. On top of that, statistics are showing that by the year 2050, we will have half as many churches and Christians as we currently do. Not so great for a “Christian country.”
Don’t get me wrong. I think the U.S. is the greatest country this world has yet known, and has done many good things. Our country’s fathers knew that America was destined for greatness, but had a very sober view of her limits. We must always be searching for a “better” system as well as a better ethic. I think one of the worst things this country could do would be to become a “Christian country.” Just look at the Republican party and see what would come of that….
brad
i agree wholeheartedly. it appears as if trying to balance what i said before, i need to balance what i said again. i am not trying to advocate that a “christian” country will be “good”. i am also not saying that godly is defined as just nominal submission to His will. i believe godly means what it says, God-like. we could substitute Christ-like and get the same effect. and if there is a group of people that are godly, then i do believe they will act in a good manner. so if a country is comprised of mostly godly people, then they will do good.
however, on the other hand, what you cite about the decline of godliness in America, i think furthers my pt. the American system is still flawed, because its human. it relies on humans to run it. and humans will be wicked and evil. even “christians” will be evil. obviously we just got done discussing the iran situation, is hagee really doing “good” simply because he’s “christian”? or is he doing something that is wrong?
i think we have to make sure that we dont lift up the system of govt, without realizing it is God who enables us to create it, sustain it, and more. and at the same time, if we as a nation turn our backs on God (which i fear our backs are already mostly turned), then we will no longer be doing “good” as God’s will is “good”.
not sure if i am making any sense.
peter