i never really realized how stressful the job search can be. i am now looking for just the right job in the big bad world. i realized that i needed to pray, because i was getting worried about things well outside of my control. essentially, i have to give all my anxiety to God. however, this doesnt mean do nothing. i still should use the resources and skills He has given me to do my best to get a job.
anyway, with all the stresses, i can see why it is so important to be involved in the world. if a minister wants to relate to business men or women, how can he do so if he has never been through such stresses himself?
surely, there is no question that a person does not have to go through everything another is going through in order to understand their situation, BUT IT HELPS. as much as seminary is important, it might be an incredible help for pastors to work in the business sector in some capacity before entering the ministry.
and ironically, look at our Messiah. he didnt come as a rabbi. he came as a carpenter who became a rabbi. and look at the disciples: fishermen, tax collectors, doctors, etc.
so my question is this, should pastors be in business in addition to going to seminary?
Filed under: Christianity, Religion | Tagged: business, job searching, pastors
An interesting thought, and like all life experience we have it would surely help them in their ministry. I do think the life of the pastor will bring on plenty of stresses in itself that can help him relate to others in a lot of areas of being a business person. I think it will be more beneficial for teaching you how to reach out to others in a normal work place and how to relate that to the members of your congregation more than the actual stresses of business itself.
bruce
thanks for your thoughts. i hear your pts. i am not sure i agree, but of course then again we all see the world from a slightly different perspective.
peter
Different indeed. I personally don’t believe in stress. Not to say I never stress, but I am able to give most of what could be stresses over to God and let him deal with them. I do understand that a lot of people have a hard time sharing with their coworkers, especially ones with more authority in the office then they have. That has been something more that I have done personally then dealing with the stresses of the business life so to me it’s more valuable for my pastor to understand that. From my perspective the stresses that I personaly deal with in the business world aren’t much different then the ones he would deal with. Mainly having too much to do and not enough time to do it in, which I find to also be a common problem among ministers.
And what did Paul do? He worked as a tent maker (whether that means he wove tallits or actually wove tents) and he led the gentile believers. I imagine that he taught as he worked like we might see some soccer moms knitting as they talk to others while watching the soccer game.
There are early texts, like the Didache and others, that suggest that a “pastor” is not to be in full time ministry yet there are others that seem to say that it is good to give to a “pastor” so he can focus on his learning and teaching. I don’t think that we can draw modern day halacha very easily from those texts, or even discern a general sweeping halacha in those days from those texts.
As far as working “out in the world”, that’s where the non-believers and semi-believers are. That’s where they, along with more mature believers, will be able to watch and see your good deeds. Matthew 5:16 It is good for a leader to be out in the world. But there are only 24 hours a day and a good leader will spend much time in study and theory/theology-testing. Maybe a part time job?
I agree that before seminary it would be a helpful thing for leaders to have a go in the business world for a season. From what my step-father has said, there are an awful lot of people who lose their faith in seminary or shortly after. He said the drop out rate can be high and that doesn’t include those who dropped out of their faith. I imagine idealistic students, good book worms (my favorite kind of people!) who move from home to school to seminary and never get a chance to have “life” thrown at them. It’s a foundation building season, I think, that will come regardless of where a person is. You don’t need to be in business to experience crisis or stress.
So – does it help a minister to relate to others if he is involved in the business world? Sure it would. Is it necessary? No. Stress will find each of us at any moment – a sick child, a car accident, too much month at the end of the money, a marital spat…
All this to say that I think working to be a well-rounded individual (whether a minister/pastor or not) is highly valuable. If that includes working out in the business world aside from being a pastor, then so be it. I think that might actually be helpful.
great pts all around…i agree completely. i think there is substantial basis for having a trade, but that doesnt have to be full time. in fact, as a full-time “pastor” it would be a poor use of time, i think. however, a part time job is always a good thing, i think. as you said, that is where we reach the world. and i think that is crucial. one cannot relate to the world if one has never been involved with it. and i dont think seminary ever counts in this regard.
however, i do think that one doesnt have to be in business, as you said, it just requires balance.
amen
peter
I wouldn’t personally frame the issue as “business experience” that’s necessary: more like “everyday life experience.” I get very wary of the whole pastor-as-businessman concept, just because I don’t like it when corporate world assumptions creep into a pastor’s concept of what it means to be a pastor – like running a business instead of leading a faith community, you know? Because then you start treating the congregants as potential buyers rather than fellow travelers. That’s my thought, anyway.
ahh…yes, wise distinction. i agree entirely that the business model is not appropriate in the Church, but unfortunately this is exactly the model many if not most churches use. pastors are not to be business men. but i think “everyday” experience would be and is very helpful. thanks for the points.
peter
The direction the church is taking will most likely cause pastors to go out and find a job. People are giving less and less. As church corruption is exposed in the secular media of all place the common people are finally opening their eyes. Churches waste lots and lots of money on buildings on programs and on payrolls.
If all the churches in America sold their real estate I wonder how much money that would add up to????? With all that money maybe the church could shelter all the homeless.
Most pastor’s cars sit in the church parking lot all day and for those pastors it would be good for them to go out into the real world like the rest of us to find a job.
hear hear
I thought I knew you and your “here here” proves that I do!
We have the same spirit indwelling us or my last comment would have turned you against me.
That is why last week I put a link on my blog to your blog.
Keep up the good fight my brother in the faith!
PB and J thanks for posing a question that I think about often. There is a certain amount of business credentials that are inherent in a good pastorate, yet to overlap our cultural and economic understandings on a vocation that historically has been called “cure of the souls” probably will not find sufficient return on our investment. While success and power are wonderful dividends of our modern business culture they seem to be in radical conflict with some of the New Testament. Maybe we are called to be a part of complicated, dysfunctional, angry, irrelevant and impractical groups of disciples. These are not the types that you include in a successful business model.
Thank you for spurring thoughts in my mind. I hope you have good fortune in your job search.
pastor of disaster,
i agree with you, but that wasnt what i was thinking of when i posed the question. i was more thinking about whether a pastor should be involved in the local community in a business type way. i dont care if a pastor has business skills, as you said i think it would be opposite of being a radical disciple.
however, what i mean is a pastor working as a volunteer fire fighter, or a local grocer, or a coffee shop owner, or a tentmaker….
i think there is a good reason that paul was tentmaker and i dont think it was just to make money. i think that its a great way to meet people and work with them and love them, etc.
my concern is that pastors often are in their own secluded worlds and not part of the real world. what do you think?
peter
I’m not sure that it is either/or. It might be hard to get a firm hold of this exclusively from the Bible. Paul obviously worked, but we are given no indication that Jesus worked during his ministry. As a matter of fact he was supported by wealthy women. The prophets did both as well. I have a tendancy to think that it is less an understanding of the nuts and bolts of what people are doing on a daily basis, but knowing ourselves well enough to share a common experience. I could be working on a construction site and still only be a tourist amongst them. In my experience often those who seek to be amongst the people are actually patronizing and elitist to the people that they are to be amongst.
Now if you must work to pay the bills that is something all together different. I have known many ministers who had to do side gigs to live. To me this is sad. They end up working two full time jobs and it makes it hard for them to give their ministry the attention it deserves. It usually fill them with a certain amount of unnecessary guilt and regret. Plus, if they have a family it is not really fair to them. I didn’t know that I had so many thoughts on this issue. I guess in the end I would say focus on the ministry if possible. A workman is worth his pay.
pastor of disaster,
good thoughts, i agree it is definitely not an either/or, but then much of life isnt.
what i would say is that you are right that it could be patronizing, but it depends on the purpose and the manner in which ones goes. i think leo tolstoy did a pretty good job of doing it. as far as Jesus, i think you are right, he probably didnt have a job. but then again, paul did. peter waldo had a job, but then again francis of assisi didnt. as you said, it is probably an individual calling.
peter
Interesting post.
Ironically I recently told my wife that if I ever start a church I’d only hire people who had been in the business world. Much of the work of the church is about setting long term plans and goals and then executing on those. Business experience is irreplaceable. You get better decision making and a higher skill level.
Still it takes a special kind of person not to turn the church then into a product and the congregation into consumers, and that would be the risk of hiring business people. But, given the right elder board and church leadership, I think it is a risk worth taking. Certainly I think you’d get a more effective church that those that struggle to frame plans and make decision. You’d also get leadership who understand how to assess and take risk.
Maybe I’m making an argument for a stronger elder board rather than pastors. Who knows….
My $0.02.
aaron,
yeah, i agree. the concept of the “presbytery” is a strong eldership. this means men who are involved in the business world for the most part.
i agree with you that pastors shouldnt be trying to make the church a business. far from it. i was trying to point out the benefit to world experience by first being in business. thanks for the comment,
peter
Dear Pastor
Pray for my ministry, and my Family,