A very interesting read from Out of Ur about Willow Creek quotes the Willow Creek staff as saying:
“Increasing levels of participation in these sets of activities does NOT predict whether someone’s becoming more of a disciple of Christ. It does NOT predict whether they love God more or they love people more.”
this really struck me. i have thought of this before, but in another context. i grew up on the program model of church, but more recently, i have been on a very different model. for those who are familiar with the Navigators, that is what has influenced me in recent years. and it is funny, because what Willow Creek is just now figuring out: “In other words, spiritual growth doesn’t happen best by becoming dependent on elaborate church programs but through the age old spiritual practices of prayer, bible reading, and relationships.” is something the Navigators has been doing for years.
however, the reason i bring this up isn’t to boast about the Navigators. in fact, i have often felt that there has been a tendency within the Navs for people to become too focused on pushing the need to read the Bible and pray and not enough truly “loving people”. i know that sounds funny. but when a person hears “read your Bible” again and again, but isn’t ready to do so, all the emphasis on such is in vain. in fact, i would say it can be counteractive.
this is not to say that all people in the Navs push spiritual disciplines too much. in fact, there are many people who do an excellent job of truly loving people. and of course, their motto is “loving God and loving people”.
but my point is that it is so easy for all of us as humans to get set into some sort of program or model or structure of learning, etc. but people are all unique. each individual may need to hear a certain message in their own way or at their own time at their own pace. this of course is easier to accomplish on a mentorship type model employed by the Navs, but this alone does not insure that we are truly maturing believers to love God and people.
so what can the??!!
how do we learn to love God and people? is there no quick solution? is their no model to follow? how can we? what do yall think?
Filed under: Christianity, Religion | Tagged: love, navigators, willow creek
i am learning how to love people. i know how to pretend i love…or how to love with the expectation of payback…but simply loving people for the sake of the kingdom…i dont know how to do.
i’m learning that it takes intent. meaning, we have to get out of our normal self-centered routine and learn how to love those around us. it means admitting that most of our love reeks of self-centeredness…and true love comes from a heart that simply desires the kingdom to be manifested through our love. with our without payback.
i recently have been intentional about loving and learning to love those that are around me. for me, it’s meant still doing fulltime ministry…but not relying on that to my act of “loving.” i got a parttime job at starbucks so that i’m intentionally able to serve, love, grow, learn, and influence and be influenced…all for the sake of advancing the kingdom.
i am learning.
I see so much confusion among Christian sects. I do not see an answer within any church, mosque or synagogue. God, love, and the Holy Spirit is much bigger than any sect or single religious following. Jesus, to me, represents the “Word” or “Spirit Of Truth” found in all world faiths. If we would just shift our focus from only Christian church creed based teachings and see all as members of one diverse global family we would find love and peace within our hearts and know God loves and accepts Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Moslems, etc. alike.
David
Hi Peter,
I happen to agree with the article. You have to hand it to them for their diverting from 30 years of ‘focus’ and making an admission of this type.
I’m not familiar with either group that you mention, but kudos to Willow Creek for a willingness to change. It seems that christianity feels a need to develop outreach programs, entertainment, etc. to keep their people busy. These things may have some merit, but the Master Yeshua was asked a question in Matt. 22:35-39 and His response brings the priority for us as stated in the Torah.
Teshuva and emuna (repentance and faith) is what we need, and when we meet another human being during our day to day activities, we should try to extend the same care and consideration as we want for ourselves. It does take practice… I have to remind myself of this each day too. To become a ‘master of repentance’ is so important.
aaron
i hear ya, it is enormously hard, i think. i too am looking to work while being in ministry for the same reason as well.
david
i agree that Jesus is what people are looking for in all religions. and the love He showed is to be our model for how we should treat others.
michael
you make a great point. i think being repentant is crucial. and it is so hard for sure. (by the way, Willow Creek is a mega church in chicago and the Navs are primarily a college campus and military ministry)
shalom
peter
How I wish that reading our Bibles was all it took to transform our hearts into people who love like Jesus loved. We need a lot to learn to love – we need a desire for growth, people to pray for and with, repentance (as Michael mentioned), worship, good times, bad times, celebration, grief, the Word, solid teaching. . .the list goes on and on. Being a follower of Jesus is a way and a process.
The one thing I have learned is that if we have someone, somewhere, who is really an intimate sister or brother in Christ, from whom we hide nothing (or at least very little!), who will hold us accountable, that is a huge help in learning to love.
Just my long-winded two cents!
absolutely. thanks megan for your input.
peter
Wow! You people amaze me!
Loving people starts with learning to see the plank in your own eye and ending the bad habit of being critical of others.
Loving people is not attempting to be some kind of hero in their life by supplying the answers to all their problems (that is arrogance).
Loving people takes time and in our busy society people chose not to take the time to love people.
Loving people in not always comfortable or natural. Sometimes it is easier to spend the evening watching TV instead of inviting people over, but what is easier is not necessarily better.
Loving people cannot be done staring at the back of someone head every Sunday while a pastor tries to prove how much he knows about God in hopes of a large offering or more members. This is probably equal to watching a preacher on TV alone.
If you can accurately define the method for loving God and people you will in the process define what God desires to see in His church also known as His bride.
josh your point is excellent. since i wrote the post, i am sorry that you took things to be otherwise. i intentionally wrote a question that didnt have an answer. no there is no method. i agree it has to start with humility and service.
peter
pbandj:
I too believe there is not a method. I think somehow when we make ourselves available to love people it happens without a method.
That is why I disagree with reading Christian books that offer up systems for relationships such as marriage. God made us all different so there is not one method that will work across the board. A lot of women read Christian marriage books looking for a method of loving their husband that will change him. Some people look for a method to love our spiritual husband thinking they can manipulate Him. Usually systems and methods for love are really a cover up for controlling someone.
I have a question off topic. What do you think of Jewish mysticism? I will tell you right away that I am not a mystic, yet I have learned some pretty deep things from some teachings on the Zohar. I am not recommending Jewish mysticism to others because it can get you off track if you are not careful. I am just curious as to your opinion?????
Hi Josh,
“Wow! You people amaze me!” how so?
It appears that all are in agreement…
Concerning the Zohar and other Jewish mystical insights, it is well known within Judaism that you must have a solid foundation of Torah before delving into these areas. As you indicated, it can get you off track otherwise.
Just a little input.
Michael:
These days there is more of a wow factor when people agree unfortunately.
Thanks for answering that question concerning Jewish Mysticism. I have been a believer for almost 24 years. Without the foundation of the scriptures Jewish Mysticism would probably confuse me. Studying Jewish Mysticism without a foundation is the same as studying the book of Revelation with a Biblical foundation.
I like this blog and hope that you will accept me as a teachable man desiring some Godly men in my life.
josh and michael
i agree, i think without proper background, going into mysticism whether it be Jewish or otherwise is dangerous. Having some experience with modern “mystics”, I will say that it can be dangerous as many “mystics” pray to the dead and have “spiritual” encounters that appear more demonic than from God.
with that said, as one matures in one’s faith, there certainly will be a more “mystical” aspect to one’s walk. because as we grow in our relationship with Messiah, we find more and more deep and meaningly times in quiet with Him. but this must be developed over years and with a strong foundation in Scripture.
thanks for the comments.
peter
PB and J:
Anything that contradicts the Bible is not for me. I was purely talking about what the true Jewish Mystics wrote. I am not studying it any longer and have since moved on to writing my own articles.
Great being here! I will catch up with you both later.
Hi Josh,
Not to worry brother. we can all learn together, as we are not above one another, but on a life journey full of questions and with our Father’s help, the right answers.
There are some beautiful things in the Zohar and other writings from the ancient sages indeed. As Peter pointed out as well, care is needed.
Be well…